@jturiano

"Capitalism has proven to be great at fostering innovation"

I don't know if I buy into this one any more. If anything the need to make rent seems to get in the way of creativity and innovation more than anything.

The people I admire most, who have done the most amazing things hardly ever do it for the cash money.

What I can say it that having currency and markets aids in the distribution problem. It's a somewhat stable way to operate.

But for motivation? It's broken.

@jturiano

You know, I'm genuinely torn on this. Making rent has been an issue long before the advent of European-liberal capitalism as we know it.

And god knows, collectivization has caused some of the worst famines in history.

I'm a socialist, and it feels like shit to admit it. But, I guess what bothers me, on both sides of the debate, is the manic embrace of absolutes.

@FinalOverdrive @jturiano

Which, ideally, is laudable. But I've met far too many people who treat them like their babies, and get ferociously maternal about them.

@FinalOverdrive @jturiano

Yeah, but your 'tough titty' is also simply demotivating.

Why is it that the most obscene thing to entertain is some compromise?

Because the 'good of the whole' simply doesn't outweigh a single person's baby to them - ever. People simply stop sharing at all. You can pretty much count historical exceptions to this selfishness on your hands.

We are selfish creatures. How do we make ourselves less selfish? That's the hurdle.

@Remittancegirl @jturiano I think you over estimate how many would stop creating and sharing ideas in the face of it. A few stubborn souls may drop out, but the majority would continue, and many more would join in this more commons oriented approach to ideas. The inventor or the author who refuses to share his work with the world if he cannot profit by it simply get left behind.

I point to the FLOSS scene as an example in my favor. Put aside whatever you may think about that motley collection of programmers personally, or even whatever odious traits they may possess. You cannot accuse them of being possessive of their work, at least not to the extent of demanding profit. That much is laudable.

@FinalOverdrive @Remittancegirl @jturiano

"The inventor or the author who refuses to share his work with the world if he cannot profit by it simply get left behind."

This person is *created* by hardship: the sense that if you do not wring all of power and profit from what you create you will have nothing. You will fall into a maw of poverty that will consume, you, your family, & freedom.

If people do not have that fear, recognition, being admired & a little profit is often more than enough.

@FinalOverdrive @Remittancegirl @jturiano Gee, you're awfully cavalier about what was at one time my only source of income. My book wasn't "naturally abundant." It took doing. To do it, I had to be able to take unpaid time off from my day job (journalist) and cover expenses for travel, etc.

Your natural desire to get stuff for free should be accompanied by understanding of how that stuff is created in the first place.

@gleick @Remittancegirl @jturiano Do not take me as dismissive of the labor it took to research for and write that book. I imagine it took much personal sacrifice and support from family and friends. Understand as well I am no friend of the publishing industry, who are the real reason writers struggle. What is naturally abundant are ideas and works of art, which include books. Human beings would still write even if copyright did not exist.

But I agree, writers should have a dependable source of income. As should all for which it is not easy to monetize or determine the money value of said labor, such as stay-at-home parents. It is one reason I am for a very generous basic income. Hypothetical: if you could count on such a thing for support, combined with an authors guild to negotiate with the publishers, would you be willing to part with intellectual property?

Barring that...to demonstrate to all here that I am not incapable of compromise, that the copyright should expire with the authors death?

@FinalOverdrive Require, no. But it sure helps ...

@gleick @futurebird @jturiano